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RADIO COMMUNICATION

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tharun
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
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15
1787

RADIO COMMUNICATION

Hi all,

         We use satel radios for calm buoy to control room communication. And the process is working. But we have to show that the system is working properly. we are in a position to show that in the scada screen. If the radio communication fails , how can i show that a error has occured in the communication. How can i be sure that the scada screen is not showing the last good value 

 

 

Thanks,


Accepted Solutions
Joel_Weder
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
0
1560

Re: COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

To view the output from the RSSI pin (pin 9 of the serial port) requires a voltmeter of some type. That can be an analog input of an RTU or PLC, or a typical multimeter, or some specialized device. We do not offer such a device, though I have seen them. Eg a comparator IC that turns on succeeding outputs to drive LED's as the voltage rises. But any such device would have to be purchased elsewhere, or custom built.

 

A preferred alternative is to have the local RTU or PLC measure the voltage and convert it to an approximate RSSI level in dBm. Then a low-cost local display such as a Magelis HMI could poll the RTU (using Modbus) for the value and display it.

 

Joel Weder
Remote Operations Specialist
Schneider Electric

See Answer In Context

15 Replies 15
BevanWeiss
Spock
Spock
0 Likes
14
1783

Re: RADIO COMMUNICATION

What SCADA platform are you using?

And how many remote devices are involved?

 

The standard way using something like Geo SCADA Expert is simply to use the Advanced Modbus Outstation alarming for this.  If the 'outstation' is responding to Modus messages, then it will show as 'Healthy' otherwise it will indicate an error.

Citect has similar Hardware Alarms for Modbus devices.

 

This is a Schneider-centric forum (at least it's hosted by Schneider, so generally focused on Schneider products) so if you have a non-Schneider SCADA then you're probably better looking on a more product specific forum (for your particular SCADA product) than here.


Lead Control Systems Engineer for Alliance Automation (VIC).
All opinions are my own and do not represent the opinions or policies of my employer, or of my cat..
tharun
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
0 Likes
13
1777

Re: RADIO COMMUNICATION

If the radio communication fails , how can i show that a error has occured in the communication. How can i be sure that the scada screen is not showing the last good value.

Joel_Weder
Commander Commander
Commander
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2
1761

Re: RADIO COMMUNICATION

Hello Tharun,

 

As mentioned by Bevan, we will need to know the name of the SCADA host software you are using before we can respond with any clarity.

 

 

Joel Weder
Remote Operations Specialist
Schneider Electric
BevanWeiss
Spock
Spock
0 Likes
9
1746

Re: RADIO COMMUNICATION

If you display the StateDesc of the Outstation within Geo SCADA Expert then it will display 'Failed', and if you configure an alarm severity against the Outstation then it will report an alarm for that Outstation.

All associated points will show a quality of 'bad' Last Known Value.. and this would normally be displayed in a sub-normal colouring so that operators would recognise the value should not be trusted.

 

In Citect the value will often be replaced with #BAD (which I personally find annoying... since it doesn't provide any useful knowledge of the system prior to the comms outage).

 

For other SCADA platforms YMMV


Lead Control Systems Engineer for Alliance Automation (VIC).
All opinions are my own and do not represent the opinions or policies of my employer, or of my cat..
tharun
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
0 Likes
1
1741

Re: RADIO COMMUNICATION

We use intouch wonderware.

tharun
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
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8
1737

COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

Hi,

     How to get communication healthy status from a TRIO ER450 serial port? 

BevanWeiss
Spock
Spock
0 Likes
0
1734

Re: COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

You can use the Trio Diagnostics protocol to get some level of 'health status' from a Trio ER450 radio.

Unsure if this is supported within Wonderware InTouch, if not, then you may need to investigate a custom connector to get similar data into Wonderware InTouch.


Lead Control Systems Engineer for Alliance Automation (VIC).
All opinions are my own and do not represent the opinions or policies of my employer, or of my cat..
BevanWeiss
Spock
Spock
0 Likes
0
1732

Re: RADIO COMMUNICATION

Wonderware Intouch has a similar capability

https://cdn.logic-control.com/docs/Wonderware/Tech%20Notes/Tech%20Note%20587%20-%20Monitor%20Comm%20...


Lead Control Systems Engineer for Alliance Automation (VIC).
All opinions are my own and do not represent the opinions or policies of my employer, or of my cat..
Joel_Weder
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
6
1719

Re: COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

It is unlikely that Wonderware would include a Trio diagnostics driver, but possible so I do suggest you look. If not, our Trio TView+ Management Suite software includes a Diagnostic program for polling the health status of radios, including E Series. (also a programmer for the E Series radios) It is a no-cost software package that does not take much processor power, so it can typically run on the same computer as the SCADA Host software (eg Wonderware). 

 

To download TView:

- go to se.com, and on the top bar make sure you have the Global site selected.

- Open the Products menu, then select Telemetry & Remote SCADA Systems.

- Scroll down to Trio Licensed Radios, then select the Software & Firmware option.

- TView+ is the first software item listed.

 

To poll an ER450 for diagnostic data you will use the same cable you use to program the radio. After installing TView you will also now have all the Trio radio manuals. In the Start menu, go to Trio Datacom then select the E Series user manual. Page 29 includes a pinout diagram for the System port cable, if you choose to make your own cable. Or you can purchase a cable kit, Schneider Electric part number TBUMCAB-TVIEWCABKT

 

I have attached a Tech Note which describes how to perform a very basic configuration of an E Series radio, then how to perform diagnostic polling using TView Diagnostics. If your radio is already configured you will not need to perform the first few steps, but do make sure the radio's Diagnostics Setup is correct.

 

I have also included another document which discusses the Optional Automatic Diagnostics reporting feature. If you don't need that just ignore that Tech Note.

 

Joel Weder
Remote Operations Specialist
Schneider Electric
Attachments
tharun
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
0 Likes
5
1712

Re: COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

Greetings,

   How to know the signal strength (RSSI) in radio without the software(Tview). We planned to indicate the radio communication healthy/failure status in Wonderware. Kindly guide me as soon as possible

 

Regards,

Tharun

Joel_Weder
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
4
1702

Re: COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

With our older (obsolete) ER450 radios you must use the Trio eDiags protocol to query the radio for its diagnostic parameters, such as RSSI. Newer radios such as Q Series will allow use of SNMP (over Ethernet) also.

 

Software that can use eDiags protocol includes TView Diagnostics (included in TView Management Suite) and Schneider's Ecostruxure Geo SCADA Expert. (used to be called ClearSCADA)  You will have to ask the Wonderware support team if they support Trio eDiags protocol.

 

Alternately, the protocol is quite simple and some end users have created their own custom driver to poll radios. The attached document (Tech Note 87) explains how to do this.

 

One other option, though it is not as accurate, is to measure the voltage on pin 9 of serial port B. (pin 5 is ground)  There is a chart in the E Series user manual that provides an approximate conversion between the 1...5 volt signal and RSSI. An analog input of an RTU or PLC could do this.

 

Joel Weder
Remote Operations Specialist
Schneider Electric
Attachments
tharun
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
0 Likes
3
1595

Re: COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

 

As per the reply, how to take the generated voltage across pin 9 (0-5V) and pin 5 (signal ground) as analog input to plc. Herewith I have attached the image for your reference. In that -dbm mentioned for stronger and weaker signal . When communication fails, There should be low voltage(Weak RSSI) across pin 9 correct? Voltage generated across pin 9 depends on RSSI am I right?

Attachments
Joel_Weder
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
2
1589

Re: COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

Yes, that is correct. Should be possible to add a bit of logic in the local RTU or PLC to trigger an alarm if the measured voltage drops significantly below the average number, or if it drops below (example) perhaps about 1.5 volts. Up to you exactly what level you trigger the alarm at.

 

Joel Weder
Remote Operations Specialist
Schneider Electric
tharun
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
0 Likes
1
1584

Re: COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

Hi Joel ,

            Thanks for your patience and kind replies, by the same pin 9 is it possible that i can use a real time LED indication to show my communication status. if so how can i do that? (we want to see the communication status without the use of a laptop/pc) ..

 

 

Thanks , 

Joel_Weder
Commander Commander
Commander
0 Likes
0
1561

Re: COMMUNICATION HEALTH STATUS

To view the output from the RSSI pin (pin 9 of the serial port) requires a voltmeter of some type. That can be an analog input of an RTU or PLC, or a typical multimeter, or some specialized device. We do not offer such a device, though I have seen them. Eg a comparator IC that turns on succeeding outputs to drive LED's as the voltage rises. But any such device would have to be purchased elsewhere, or custom built.

 

A preferred alternative is to have the local RTU or PLC measure the voltage and convert it to an approximate RSSI level in dBm. Then a low-cost local display such as a Magelis HMI could poll the RTU (using Modbus) for the value and display it.

 

Joel Weder
Remote Operations Specialist
Schneider Electric