Operator Terminal Expert Driver - Why has Schneider Cut Out OPC UA etc..

[louispijpers]

Hi,

I have started using operator terminal expert as our company is trying to streamline and use control hardwae from one vendor. The M241/M251 and M262 PLCs are a dream to work with and are very powerful due to using CoDeSys back-end,

I am wondering why schneider isn't fussed about the state of their HMI offerings to match these PLCs? EOTE in its current form is beyond a joke.. It has the foundation to be a leader in HMI software given the ability for gestures/stack panels/dynamic display configuration etc. but having been on the market (pro-face BLUE)

-I'm very suprised that it doesn't incorperate popup pages and page re-use with instances.. This is practically a must-have these days - especially to match how powerful codesys programming is.. 

-Why has schneider cut out open drivers like OPC UA from the schneider EOTE when it remains in the pro-face branded form?..

OPC foundation approved: https://opcfoundation.org/products/view/vijeo-xd

I tried using the 'somachine' symbol link on a project recently only to find out that machine expert as of V1.2 doesn't support it.. what the hell is going on? Isn't the point of using 1 vendors equipment so that development is streamlined. I ended up having to convert code away from DUTs and instead locating variables to modbus registers.. then you have to re-work the codesys modbus addressing to the EOTE format.. It's not streeamlined like it should be given that the software isn't free.. 

Can we expect and update of EOTE anytime soon and what features will be incorperated? Im wanting to know as I'd like to move towards the modern EOTE that has a lot of potential but I don't want to get caught out again with drivers and lack of functionality and re-work without re-use and object instance supported.. I also want to avoid having to buy a vijeo designer license..

Regards,

Louis P.

[Rodrigo_Garcia]

Hello EOTE 3.1 SP1 with new features will be updated very soon on Exchange. We will write a post to anounce it. Keep posted.

Regards.

[louispijpers]

Hi Rodrigo,

Do you mean SP1A that was released a few weeks ago or will this be a version 3.2?

Also, I found another feature that unbelievably isn't supported - VNC - I would have thought this is critical to have on a modern HMI.. and not difficult to implement.

Regards,

Louis Pijpers.

[vitor_mendes]

Hi,

I will try to reply to some of the topics and I will share with HMI colleagues based in Australia (I think that is where you are based), because I think some additional local communication is needed.

EcoStruxure Operator Terminal Expert already allow to make very nice look & feel applications, with possibility to improve operator experience in terms of intuitiveness, mainly at simple machines level, but should be clear that is not yet a fully featured SW like others that are already on the market for more than 10 years like Vijeo Designer.

Regarding some features that you mention, they are not implemented yet. But I'm surprised with the comment about OPC UA. OPC UA Server is implemented and available both in EcoStruxure Operator Terminal Expert and BLUE. So, there was no cut in this. Here the questions can be:

- which EcoStruxure Operator Terminal Expert version you have? Current version is 3.1 SP1A (available in se.com and SESU for download and soon in SE Exchange too)

- which HW you use as target? --- STO7 doesn's support OPC UA

- which license type you Have? --- Basic License doesn't support OPC UA, you need a Professional License to use OPC UA

Regarding Machine Expert, I'm not sure if I understood well your comment, but if is related, with the use of Operator Terminal Expert together with Machine Expert and that you noticed that there was a change from Machine Expert 1.2, while before was OK and now is not, this can be related with a Cyber Security implementation made in Machine expert side in 1.2. again I'm not sure if I understood the issue, but is is this, today workaround exist to make it work and next in  the EcoStruxure Operator Terminal release, expected still this year release (I cannot confirm the date yet), this will be solved without need to use the workaround that we need to use today.

Not all that you are looking for will be available in EcoStruxure Operator Terminal expert by this year. I think is important that someone from Schneider Electric based near you can give you more details, so I will share this message with my HMI contact in Australia.

Note: If my assumption that you are based in Australia is wrong please let me know to share with the right country contact 

Regards,

Vitor Mendes 

[kjetilbergsvik]

Hi Vitor.

It would be nice if you could share the workaround to share variables via 'somachine' symbol link' for Machine expet V1.1 and V1.2. The only thing I have been able to do is to disable password on the controller, then it alows to share variables. That is kinda stupid since the point was to implement better security 😉

I am on Machine Expert V1.1, and am scared to updated with latest vertions of EOTE and Machine Expert, since project is not completed commissioning. 

[NicholasLim]

Hi

The updating of the software for ME and EOTE is by different R&D teams and hence when certain enhancement of cybersecurity fixes in one offer will have a lapse time for the fix in the other. for the disable of password, this is something you will encounter for the short term as it was already defined for a fix in the next coming release version. The workaround which you have already done is the only way to enable communication at this point in time.

[louispijpers]

Hi Victor,

Thanks for getting back to me.

Please see this: https://www.se.com/ww/en/faqs/FA347698/ I am referring to using OPC UA as a driver to talk to the PLC, not as a driver from SCADA to talk to the HMI. The M251/M262 PLCs can have an OPC symbol definition (much like that used for the somachine driver) which could be used for name-based addressing rather than modbus.

The software (at least in its BLUE form) has been around for 3.5 years hasn't it? Surely thats enough time to implement VNC and popup windows (without a clunky work-around). I understand intances of pages with tag substitutions would be difficult to implement but wouldn't this be a priority? It's been done dozens of times before in other software packages so it's not a new feature. I would have thought this would be imperative for new software to have - especially if its being branded as a solution for machine control and lumped in with the M242/M251/M262 PLCs where they are built around this kind of modularity and code-reuse structure.

Why is the work-around not widely published in the help documents? Why is it hidden away on a forum post - I spent over a day trying to get a HMI to read 1 tag from the PLC with the 'somachine' driver. 

Is there any information on remote access available for these panels also?

Can I exchange the EOTE license for a VD license - it seems hardly worth the money. It's unbelievable that schnieder are even charging for this software when it falls so short from what it should be after 3.5 years of development.

Also if you are going to include a cut-back HMI as a HTML5 version (Harmony ST6 series) you will need to open up the vebvisu functionality of the PLCs - include the alarm manager into the machine expert software! CoDeSys is providing a fully functional HTML5 webserver that would take care of all these troubles.. if only schneider would get on-board with the future of integrated control systems. HMI running on the PLC is what industry 4.0 and EDGE controllers are designed for - this is what these controllers are being marketed as..

I am using EOTE v3.1SP1A, my target is G3U and HMIDT351. I have paid for a professional license, see attached screenshot..

Yes I am in Australia.

Regards,

Louis Pijpers.

[louispijpers]

Thats pretty poor that since different teams work on the software the customer has to wear the consequences..

Surely 3S (who make CoDeSys) are doing machine expert for the most part?

Schneider is locking down functionality here also.. why not give people the ability to use the fully functional HTML5 webvisu package in their application - give them access to the alarm manager and other modules that have been removed from CoDeSys to develop machine expert. 

Customers are looking for an integrated solution and streamlined software engineering throughout the control system. There shouldn't be 'work arounds' for new software releases, people are purchasing this software and hardware (PLC and HMI) from one vendor with the purpose of stremlining their software development.. there shouldn't be any compromises on the customers side - they are paying for whats meant to be a premium product when stacking up against other vendors!!

Its annoying to think that for half the price of a PLC and HMI - I can go out and buy a wago PLC with fully functioning CodeSys - talk to practically anything, and run a HTML5 webvisu to multiple remote and local clients! And the software is free!!

Its embarasing as I was a schneider certified engineer 7 years ago before having a break from programming, used their products all the time, vouched for them when my new company was looking at what hardware to use & now that I go to implement using this stuff - figure out how hopeless it is.. egg on my face..

What's changed at schneider in that time? 

Regards,

Louis P.

[vitor_mendes]

Hi Louis,

I was off for long weeks, -just back tro work this last Wednesday-, due to the covid 19 situation and some measures implemented by Schneider Electric FR regarding it.

I know that my SE Australian colleagues alreday contacted you, so I hope that now things are more clear.

EcoStruxure Operatort Terminal Expert will continue to evolve and for sure  that some of the missing features that you indicate are part of the SW evolution.

For the moment, with EcoStruxure Operator Terminal Expert SW, we focus our business in what we call the Basic Operator Panels (HMISTO7 and HMIST6). For Advanced Operator Panels, like G3U, the preferred HMI SW is still Vijeo Designer.

I understand the "dilemma/gap" you face, between a SW that is not anymore super attractive in terms of graphics and a new SW with very nice graphics but still lacking several important features.

During 2021, with some new Advanced Operator Panels and some evolutions of SW in our HMI offer, this gap will disappear or at least will be highly reduced vs the current existing gap..

Regards,

Vitor