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Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

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Daniel_apc
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Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 5/31/2011


My power went out the other day and now my 750G ups was clicking when i got home (Had computer off) so unplugged read some info, found out that the voltage must be above what? Mine is at 115 and i get the clicking from battery ~ plug (on taskbar) had to install the 3.0 Powerchute software and set the Sensitivity to "low" to get it to stop making noise and run right. Now questions at hand why is it clicking at 115, When your info says (Your battery backup will intervene when the AC utility voltage falls below 92 volts or rises above 139 volts. The normal AC utility voltage is 120 volts. The current voltage is 123 volts.) 115 is definitively no where near 92 volts, So why is my battery turning on? Seems you have it 120v +/- 5 or so to go into battery mode. Because the settings in the Voltage tab do nothing, i set the low at 88 and still get clicking. Also is there a way to change these settings manually in unit it self? This Powerchute 3.0 has a issue too, The Technical Data tab if i click on it, It makes my floppy drive sound like it gonna blow-up and have to close the program to get it to stop. So any help would be appreciated thx.

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Daniel_apc
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 6/11/2011


Hi Eruraito,
>
I think, what you would need is a Smart-UPS, if you would need more features.
>
Well true, but i don't need anything and Don't have 300-550$ for a Smart-UPS. I was just stating that this has been out for 3-years now and it the same unit no upgrades or anything. I see there PRO 700 is like what i was talking about with LCD readout, But i need or want Dual battery side Master controller (1-Pc, 1-monitor) So i can see what is going on when i lose power. Funny! thing i answered my question i posted on here 2-years ago about this issue, [Battery/monitor not working when unplugged from wall |http://forums.apc.com/spaces/7/ups-management-devices-powerchute-software/forums/general/5726/nmc-ap...] that it seemed strange i would lose power "or i thought" cause unit was saying it went into battery backup, But my other stuff hooked up where still powered up and could not recreate the issue with pulling the plug from wall. Well the answer is under voltage & having the Sensitivity settings at High or Medium don't know which the default settings is. That would explain the unplugging the unit i did not get the same results. Seems they had features built into this unit that people knew nothing about, or told them so as i said above in posts put features in manual. For the people that already have the units Update the pdf. Manual and post link somewhere so we can have a fresh new "All" features of unit.

Seems checking around that all the other brands out there have LCD Readout, Battery Voltage, Run time, Mode buttons on unit to adjust or change settings that the software does if installed. Don't get me wrong this is a good seller for the most part! Now add things and make it a killer =] just my thoughts.
~ Regards ~

See Answer In Context

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BillP
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This reply was originally posted by Bernard on APC forums on 5/31/2011


Hi Daniel


The UPS that you have may have switched to On Battery operation not because the voltage is too low or because there was a blackout.It could have switched because the UPS detected "dirty power" and deemed that the incoming voltage can cause damage to the connected equipment.This [Kbase article|http://nam-en.apc.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/480] lists the reasons why a UPS switches to On battery operation. You can also check [this page|http://nam-en.apc.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/11128] to know more about adjusting the sensitivity manually.Can you also post a screenshot of PCPE 3.0 when you click on the Technical Data tab?

BillP
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This reply was originally posted by Bernard on APC forums on 6/1/2011


Based on the manual the ES750's brownout transfer can go as low as 88 Vrms so it can still charge the battery even if the incoming voltage goes as low as 88 Vac and even if the unit went on battery and it expended the battery charge,the unit goes into Low Voltage Sleep Mode,wherein the unit still charges the battery but won't output until the input voltage goes back up to the acceptable range the it goes back online.



You may also want to look at this regarding the UAC issue

Daniel_apc
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 6/1/2011


Thx Kulot,

Thx for the info on how to set if not using software, they should have that in the manual. The link you gave is ok, but does not describe clicking. This is the thing i found [http://nam-en.apc.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/39/kw/Clicking%20750G] and sounds like the issue. Problem i see is they are calling 115v "dirty" when the Us standard is 120v +/- 5% (114v-126v) But the charger-relay is kicking in & out and in link above they state "The relay inside the UPS may be audible in some environments. The relay switches when Intelligent Battery Management features such as Boost and Trim are initiated and when the UPS switches to battery. This is proper operation of the UPS" This sounds weird to me if this was a proper operation and i left it alone my battery would have died or shut-down my system do to lack of battery power? So i guess big question would be, How low in voltage can you go before the charger stops charging battery? And does the settings in Sensitivity Tab make a big difference in the voltage range the charger works like-(High 120v-118v, Med. 120v-116v) and low would not click at all cause it not looking at the "filtering" of the line voltage? It seems i could run the software, but you have UAC issues on boot-up of system. So glad i can adjust manually on unit itself, but would definitively want to know "At what said voltages is my battery being charged at?"

Screen shot of Technical Data, Still blasts my floppy drive to death : ( hope this helps Thx again! Kulot 🙂

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voidstar_apc
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 6/1/2011


Hi Daniel,

Boost and Trim allows the UPS to increase or decrease the voltage without using the battery (except briefly when going into boost or trim). However, not all UPSes have this feature, and from the [BackUPS ES750G product page|http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BE750G] I don't think yours is one of them.

Sensitivity is unrelated to the line voltage. Even when the line voltage is normal, the UPS will still transfer due to disturbances. The sensitivity setting determines how sensitive the UPS is to these disturbances. Think of it like an earthquake: you don't know whether it's dangerous when you feel the tremors, but you brace for an impact. Similarly, the UPS reacts to disturbances on the line just in case the voltage drops or goes too high, because by the time we know, it's already too late.

There are "double conversion online" UPSes that do not need to transfer to battery due to slight disturbances, but they're expensive and less efficient than the UPS you have.

While I don't know how low the voltage can go on this UPS while still charging the battery, I think it's safe to say if your computer is operational, then so is the charger.

I hope that helps.

Daniel_apc
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 6/2/2011


Hi Voidstar,

Sensitivity is unrelated to the line voltage. Even when the line voltage is normal, the UPS will still transfer due to disturbances. This is related to voltage, cause the unit shuts down at 119v in High & Medium settings (screen shots above) i let it go for like 5-mins. you can see all the "Blackouts" (17) Now if this is not a voltage issue then why is the software calling it a Blackout? This is a Under voltage, But the unit kicks the relay in & out constantly and stops charging and runs in battery mode till it gets back to 120+v. Cause if i leave it on Low it runs fine i guess. But the software says *"Use this setting if your battery backup continues to transfer to battery operation frequently on the medium setting. Typically occurs when AC utility source is generator. Caution: this will allow greater voltage distortions to reach your computer."* So to me this tells me i am turning off a filter or something and now have "Dirty" voltages reaching my computer? So the Question again would be what does these settings do? Also why is none of this in the manual (pdf) i seen? I would think that this is clearly as mud a important feature that "We" said owners of any make, model, style that has features like this to give us info on, How to use settings & and what they actually do? How to adjust settings in software & manually if issues arise? I mean for us not to search the internet for weeks to find out what to do, when it should be right in the manual (Hope you don't throw it in trash)

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Daniel_apc
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 6/2/2011


Hi Kulot,

I read that info and it seems that only applies if you have the (High, Medium, Low settings) set to Low from my other post info from testing it last night. The unit does kick off at 119v if you have it in High or Medium to battery mode, Low does nothing lets run and still charges. So this is where i get the statement above, So the 88 would apply here as the battery kick in voltage.

As for UAC issues i know how to over come the "Ask to run" issues and make it run as it should (just start-up with the OS) but i never was running the software in the first place i was using Windows 7 as my controller for APC. I only installed the software, cause Windows 7 has nothing for settings on unit. Also since on this software they should include a uninstalling driver that got installed, So you can go back to native pickup again. I had to Google around for this when i tried to uninstall the program and go back to Native.

voidstar_apc
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 6/2/2011


Hi Daniel,

>
regarding sensitivity This is related to voltage, cause the unit shuts down at 119v in High & Medium settings (screen shots above) i let it go for like 5-mins.
>

You're seeing that when the the line voltage is 119V, the UPS goes to battery at medium or high sensitivity. Therefore you conclude that 119V causes the UPS to go to battery at medium and high sensitivity, which doesn't makes sense because your low voltage trip point is 92V.

An alternative explanation is that there are disturbances on the line that are triggering the UPS under medium and high sensitivity. Those disturbances cause the line voltage to drop a little, but not below the low voltage trip point. The only odd part of this scenario is that they're being labeled "blackouts".

You can try testing a different UPS at high sensitivity to see if it does the same thing, or test your own UPS in another location with hopefully better electrical power.

Your UPS has some filtering to protect equipment against electrical spikes and surges, however it doesn't clean up distorted power except by transferring to battery. So that's the choice you make... allow it to reach your computer, or use the battery instead. As bad as that sounds, good computer power supplies are not picky about their power and may operate without issue.

From the sounds of it, setting your UPS to low sensitivity is the way to go.

I hope that answers that question.

Daniel_apc
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 6/3/2011


Hi Voidstar,
>
You're seeing that when the the line voltage is 119V, the UPS goes to battery at medium or high sensitivity. Therefore you conclude that 119V causes the UPS to go to battery at medium and high sensitivity, which doesn't makes sense because your low voltage trip point is 92V.
>

True, It seems the Engineers need to call out what these features do! To me it doesn't matter what you have the "battery Low setting 88-92v" at if your using the Sensitivity settings (High & Medium) because as seen it will shut-off at 119v (in hence the "blackout" on software) and uses the battery as power till you reach 120v+ again. but in "Low Sensitivity" setting the above 88-92v should apply, but i don't know? there is no info on this feature and settings!

>
An alternative explanation is that there are disturbances on the line that are triggering the UPS under medium and high sensitivity. Those disturbances cause the line voltage to drop a little, but not below the low voltage trip point. The only odd part of this scenario is that they're being labeled "blackouts".
>

Makes sense, but why is it only working for under not over (-1v & +9v that I've seen) Seems -1v under nominal is pretty tight tolerance for this unit. And it labeling it a "Blackout" because it is transferring to battery for power till it reaches 120v. This is why i ask the Question "what does this feature" do?

>
You can try testing a different UPS at high sensitivity to see if it does the same thing, or test your own UPS in another location with hopefully better electrical power.
>

Already tested this, My sister has same unit and the night i was having problems called her next day and ask was your ups clicking at all last night? And she said YES! how did you know? lol "I didn't know what was going on so shut computer down" So i told her i mite have to change the setting on the ups to stop making the clicking noise.

In the end with NEW stuff coming out all the time they should add either this [Voltage Regulator|http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812106005&cm_re=apc_surge_protector-_-12-106-0...] to this unit and would have voltage filtering and not transfer on battery. Also would be nice to see maybe LCD read out on unit for Battery, Line Voltage, and to adjust settings "like some of the other models they have with these LCD readouts" Don't get me wrong this is a very nice unit to own, but keep more features coming out (if have not) and give people more reasons to buy these units. 🙂

eruroraito_apc
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 6/5/2011


Hi Daniel,

I think, what you would need is a Smart-UPS, if you would need more features.

Daniel_apc
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Re: Battery coming on at wrong voltages?

This was originally posted on APC forums on 6/11/2011


Hi Eruraito,
>
I think, what you would need is a Smart-UPS, if you would need more features.
>
Well true, but i don't need anything and Don't have 300-550$ for a Smart-UPS. I was just stating that this has been out for 3-years now and it the same unit no upgrades or anything. I see there PRO 700 is like what i was talking about with LCD readout, But i need or want Dual battery side Master controller (1-Pc, 1-monitor) So i can see what is going on when i lose power. Funny! thing i answered my question i posted on here 2-years ago about this issue, [Battery/monitor not working when unplugged from wall |http://forums.apc.com/spaces/7/ups-management-devices-powerchute-software/forums/general/5726/nmc-ap...] that it seemed strange i would lose power "or i thought" cause unit was saying it went into battery backup, But my other stuff hooked up where still powered up and could not recreate the issue with pulling the plug from wall. Well the answer is under voltage & having the Sensitivity settings at High or Medium don't know which the default settings is. That would explain the unplugging the unit i did not get the same results. Seems they had features built into this unit that people knew nothing about, or told them so as i said above in posts put features in manual. For the people that already have the units Update the pdf. Manual and post link somewhere so we can have a fresh new "All" features of unit.

Seems checking around that all the other brands out there have LCD Readout, Battery Voltage, Run time, Mode buttons on unit to adjust or change settings that the software does if installed. Don't get me wrong this is a good seller for the most part! Now add things and make it a killer =] just my thoughts.
~ Regards ~